Submission2Him

My Family's Prayer Board: The big difference in Christianity and Jesus

2008-11-22T08:27:00.005-06:00

Don't you just love it when you hear a snippet from someone - or read a new thought in a book - or a passage in the Bible you've read 100's of times - and God opens the eyes of your heart to instantaneously understand a deeper truth about Him? It is just like Balaam and that old dumb donkey - the angel that Balaam couldn't see was always there. The angel was reality. But until God opened Balaam's eyes - he was unable to see the reality, the obvious. God opens that door. Balaam saw. We see.

That happened to me last month - and something has been percolating inside me since.

We had a weekend visitor from another state - and another faith - who spent time with us a few weeks ago. Using a cursory glance, one would not think there was much in common with the way we each understand God. However, he made a simple observation and shared it with us over morning coffee - that has really changed my way of seeing my purpose with others - both believers and unbelievers. Like Balaam's angel - this purpose has always been here - but I am now seeing (and understanding) it in a much deeper way.

He simply said, "We Christians pray for one another. But how long has it been since you prayed with someone - involving yourself very intimately in their lives and their needs?"

My family has a simple white marker board in our living room covered in prayer requests. It includes family members, neighbors, friends all over the world and their needs of health, safety, direction, and faith. It is a constant reminder of all our needs - based on our human fraility - and our complete dependence on our Father. It is especially meaningful to me when we have company - and after they leave we see they have added their own names and needs to the board. What an honor to be asked to be included in their lives!

I realize that we could get into a very serious discussion about the purpose of prayer with an understanding to our serving a God who knows "the end from the beginning" and knows our needs before we ask them. But putting that aside - I wonder about the purpose of our praying for others? And how does our understanding line up with Jesus'involvement in with the people He encountered?

The way I see it "done" most (and the way I generally pray myself) is very safe. I realize a need someone has - and I ask God to take care of it for them. It's the same way for those involved in religious meetings - they pray a prayer about a person. Typically that person is not present - because they are sick or away dealing with the problem. If they are present - they are sitting in their pew (or chair) and we are in ours. When we ask God to help help them in a prayer this way - we are staying protected - both physically and emotionally. And the person in need is protected from the intimacy of our closer involvement, as well.

While that has always seemed the "right" way to handle prayer for others - I am beginning to see it differently. Now, this does get wrapped in WHY we pray in the first place - but bear with me - even if we might not agree on that. God already knows their needs. In fact, God knew they would have that need before it ever reared its ugly head. God may have very specific reasons for bringing that need into his/her life. How do they (or I) know that? Will my prayer change any of that? I would hope not. None of us is like Moses - God shared His plan with Moses. The Israelites simply were to follow. We are the Israelites - learning to follow and trust day by day.

So why pray at all? And how should I view my praying for others? I just don't think communication with the Living God should be such a safe, nearly scripted activity. I believe it is a huge, REAL, life altering experience. It seems to have become (especially in religious settings, before meals and before sleep) so usual and regular that prayers are even kept to the same number in a service - in an order stuck between songs and sermons - rather than REAL moments of communication between people in constant need for the adored Father. What if someone feels a need to share the prayers of their brothers and sisters between verses 3 and 4 of the 2nd song? How would everyone react? But I digress. Back to why do I pray? Especially for others?

My weekend guest helped me to see - prayer is for the person needing the prayer and for me. It is not for God. That being said - for me to simply say a prayer FOR someone or even write them on my board to keep them in my daily thoughts - is not the purpose. I believe we need to be more like Jesus and be so involved in the lives of others - their needs and happiness - that we are WITH them through the struggles. Our prayers should be WITH them - not about them. How long has it been since you've held someone's hand and prayed with them?

Every person Jesus was with had His total attention. He knew their lives, their marrage situations, their needs, their struggles, their strengths - and he related to each person THROUGH those. He did not have people mail in prayer requests, he didn't say "I will pray for you" nor did he have his followers collect requests so they could be prayed over during the "prayer service." He stopped what He was doing - and that person became his attention until the need was met.

We can't bring back sight, forgive sins or know hearts - but we can follow Jesus' example and be with the folks God has placed in our paths. Not just knowing about the problem, praying about the problem, sharing wisdom about the problem. We need to get our hands dirty - like Jesus did - not worrying about what others think. Jesus didn't care when he was harangued for hanging out with sinners. We do keep our robes clean - we don't join in the sin - but we do physically snatch the sufferer from the fire - which entails very personal involvement. We can't snatch from the fire when we are sitting on the sidelines. Yelling between your hands "I'm praying for you!" can't be heard above the roaring flames - and do nothing for the person who is burning. We have to get up - walk over - risk getting singed ourselves - but grab her out. That's what Jesus did. That's what I know now I am to do. No more safe prayers for me.

This picture exemplifies what I'm saying. It was painted following a dream that the founder of the Salvation Army (William Booth) had. Which type of believer, living in safety, are you? As you notice - most are just going about their lives - eating, drinking, being safe. The guy painting is probably painting a very spiritual piece. The singer might be singing a song to God. But most aren't even noticing the drowning. Some notice - and are offering help - if they drowner will come to them. Only one couple is out in the churning water (the fire) - grabbing drowners and pulling them to safety.

If you would like information on ordering this moving print - let me know. I have it hanging it our study. What a meaningful reminder of why God has "stationed" us here. It's not to eat and drink in safety. It is not all about us. We are here for others. We are here to do what God created us for - and that is simply to live so others see God. Who in this painting is living that way? Am I? Are you?

AJTX ~ 11.08

PS - here is a link to Booth's explanation of his dream:

If God's Eyes are Searching to and Fro - Will He Find Your Heart?

2008-10-04T20:30:00.004-05:00

Ok – it’s time again for my pre-election stump speech entitled “Where are the Christians”

I guess if I were to say the ONE thing that bothers me about politics and spiritually minded folks is they don’t seem to be able to exist together. When I listen to a discussion about politics between Christians – I don’t hear or see anything different coming from them than I do unbelievers or the talking heads on the news. Doesn’t something seem wrong with this picture? Where are the joyful followers of God who feel a peace that passes understanding?

Most of us are pretty comfortable with going to the Bible as an example of how to live today – so I thought I might share a situation that I think applies to this.

There was once a man who terrified God’s people. He taunted them 2 times a day – calling attention to his power over them. He thrilled at their fear. He gloried in it.

“This day I defy the ranks of Israel! Give me a man and let us fight each other! (1 Sam. 17:10)

While we are certainly in the threat of trying times – we aren’t having our lives nor even our pocketbooks actually in eminent danger. We don’t have taunt-ers advertising they have America by the shorthairs. We don’t have people on the news laughing at the predicament they have America in. Nor are they blaring in our streets over microphones, laughing as we are living in their grip of their terror.

Yet – that is exactly what Goliath was doing.

When Saul and his men heard the Philistine’s challenge they were terrified and lost all hope. ( 1 Sam. 17:11)

I wonder how our reaction to supposed fear compares to a man of God – David’s -reaction to a real one. It seems to me we fit more with Saul and his men. Did David complain, demean, organize hate groups, pass information around to ruin the name of Goliath? Did he take matters in his own hands, get numbers on his side, pass around bumper stickers that said “Vote like an Israeli” or “Get your 'Rally for Rocks' t-shirt here! Join our ranks!?”

David asked the men standing near him, “What will be done for the man who kills this Philistine and removes this disgrace from Israel? Who is this uncircumcised Philistine that he should defy the armies of the living God?" (1 Sam. 17:26)

David’s initial response to this real, impending problem is to talk about God. I don’t see the others around doing the same. They were too busy quivering. David’s mind goes to God immediately. It reminds me of Proverbs, “Acknowledge me in all your ways and I’ll direct your steps.” I wonder if Solomon’s words came from observing his father David’s life? His life with God and the faith he had were lived in his reality – not just his email posts or in bible class discussions.

Now the next part is something that’s particularly interesting to me. Ask any Christian and he/she will tell you all about the times that God has been involved in his life. They generally talk your ear off. :) Prayers have been answered, mountains moved, lives changed, hearts touched. The product of these experiences should be faith – a faith that is rooted deeply in experiences. But our faith does not seem to exist during times like these. God, who was strong enough for us to depend on in all those prayers and insurmountable life experiences, just doesn’t have what it takes in the serious governmental issues facing our country today. We need to wrest it from His hands and handle it ourselves.

“The Lord who delivered me from the paw of the lion and from the paw of the bear, He will deliver me from the hand of this Philistine.” (1 Sam. 17:37)

Have you heard this from the discussions of Christians during this election and times of financial troubles? I haven’t. Why not? Where is our faith?

I love this next one:

“You come against me with sword and spear and javelin, but I come against you in the name of the Lord Almighty, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied. This day the Lord will hand you over to me, and I’ll strike you down and cut off your head. Today I will give the carcasses of the Philistine army to the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and the whole world will know that there is a God in Israel. All those gathered here will know that it is not by sword or spear that the Lord saves; for the battle is the Lord’s and he will give all of you into our hands.” (1 Sam. 17:45-47)

Another point I like about this is WHY David called on God. It isn’t to save David’s skin. It isn’t so the Israelites can quit being terrorized. It’s not so they don’t lose their retirement or have lower taxes. It’s so the whole world will know that there is a God in Israel. However, why are we calling on God today? (Those of us who even are taking that step at
all?)

David is God centered. Everyone else is Goliath centered.

Where is your center?

And the deal is – it’s ALL up to us. God doesn’t ask for the world to follow Him. He doesn’t demand numbers or percentages before he’ll step in. He says “However, if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves, pray, search for me, and turn from their evil ways, then I will hear [their prayer] from heaven, forgive their sins, and heal their land.” (2 Chron. 7:14)

My question is – why aren’t we witnessing this today among God’s children? Where are the humble, the pray-ers, the folks who change their wicked lives and beg for mercy? Where are those whose hearts, minds, and voices turn first to God – because He has proven Himself to us in the past through the experiences of our lives?

Where are those whose hearts, minds, and voices turn first to God – because He has proven Himself to us in the past through the experiences of our lives? Is our trust in the Savior who has faithfully delivered us from the lion and the bear or the carnal giant political system that never keeps its promises?

Alice 10.2008

Hosea, Gomer, God and Me - the first

2008-06-09T14:06:00.006-05:00

"We try to run from God and drown our miseries in empty pleasures or drink or work or social life but as surely as we think we have escaped, as surely as we think we have run far enough, God touches our sleeve with his love saying My child, my name and my nature are love and I must act according to what I am. When you tire of all your running and your wandering and your heartbreak, I'll be there to draw you to myself again."

That is the story of the Bible isn't it? At Bethlehem God entered the slave market where the whole human race was putting itself up for auction, prostituting itself and its humanity to a cheapened life. But on the cross the Lord Jesus paid the price, the full price for our freedom, and bought us back. This is the story of God's love and God's heart -- his loving desire to make of his people the full persons he intended them to be. (from pbc.org)

One of the wonderful aspects of following God is the realization that your existence matters. So many people don't feel (or realize) that - and that's witnessed by the huge success of books like The Purpose Driven Life and Your Best Life Now. People are searching for significance and meaning. Is there anything that distinguishes me from the person standing next to me in the elevator? Will my passing leave a hole - did my life leave a mark? Do I matter?

When one walks with God over years - he can look back and see the threads that God has woven - threads of realization and purpose that were being blended through life experiences. During the weaving the pattern is generally indistinguisable - but when looking back the design is so distinct and brilliant. God introduces a new understanding or depth to us. This brings a particular colored thread to our pattern. Then he adds a seemingly unrelated concept later (a new color) and then another. Years and experiences pass and one day we look back over the weaving of our life and see that those colors that were so different on the shuttles are now woven tightly into the pattern that is distinctly the intimate relationship between God and each of us - our purpose for being. God's good pleasure.

(Folding up of the Past)

That is how the realization for this life long search for submission began. Looking back over my life, I was able to see a design in the unrelated threads that God had added to my life-tapestry over the past 30 years. Experiences and understandings that seemed totally unrelated to me at the time were now an amazing picture of God and his relationship with me. His teaching me.

I am sharing a personal experience with God here - but I do so with trepidation. People are always sharing dreams, experiences and revelations. I don't believe that is why God teaches us: in order that we go out and share what we heard or learned or saw. No, I believe God teaches us so that we become a person through the experience that He can then use to do His will. The experience was for us - the result of the experience - the person we become - is for others.

The resulting realization gave me a view of the multi-colored pathway to my present understanding of submission.

I've always loved contemplating on the relationship God shared with Moses. I believe one reason God shared so much with Moses is that Moses wanted God. He cared for Him - he liked Him. He talked to God as he would a friend. He even counseled/corrected God. Rather than being offended and raining down holy fire - God loved him - and listened. Moses wanted even more of God. (This was placed in opposition to the Israelites who said "That's OK Moses - we don't need to meet God on the mountain. You just head on up there yourself and come back and tell us. We'll do whatever you tell us to do." They certainly didn't want God.)

So, Moses said, "God? I want more. Can you show me yourself? Can I see Your Glory?" and God answered (quoted in Exodus 33:18-23)

"I will make all my goodness pass before you and will proclaim before you my
name (for the sake of His name)... my name 'The LORD.' . . . Then the LORD said,
"There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. When my glory passes
by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I
have passed by. Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face
must not be seen."

So much to think about in that experience. I mean - can you even imagine? One, Moses wanted more of God - but in the phyiscal - couldn't handle it. God didn't say "you can't take Me" - He honored Moses' desire by giving him what he could take - but even THEN he had to cover Moses with his Hand. (one side note - I read a book that gave a very different Hebrew meaning to "you will see my back" and one that really rings true with me. Rather than God's physical "back" - that phrase means "where I have been." Wow. According to that translation, Moses couldn't take the presence (present) of God - but he could take where God had been as he passed Moses in the cleft - God in the past. Cogitate on that a bit.)

Ok, Moses took up more than I was planning. :) I'll get to how this led to Hosea next time.

AJTX

From Moses to Hosea -the second

2008-06-09T11:17:00.013-05:00

From Moses to Hosea :)

My fascination with Moses' desire to know the Real God led me into the same desire. I prayed over several years that I be able to know Him - to be someone He could rely on - to be prepared as a sanctuary for Him. I wanted to be a place of rest - a life lived for Him, not focusing on what He could do for me. There were many aspects, side roads and rabbit trails leading towards this, but I'll spare you. :) I heard the following quote from C.S. Lewis in 1995 - just one of the new threads added to my life's tapestry: (before I even knew I had a tapestry :) )

Imagine yourself as a living house. God comes in to rebuild that house. At first, perhaps, you can understand what He is doing. He is getting the drains right and stopping the leaks in the roof and so on: you knew that those jobs needed doing and so you are not surprised. But presently He starts knocking the house about in a way that hurts abominably and does not seem to make sense. What on earth is He up to? The explanation is that He is building quite a different house from the one you thought of — throwing out a new wing here, putting on an extra floor there, running up towers, making courtyards. You thought you were going to be made into a decent little cottage: but He is building a palace. He intends to come and live in it Himself (Mere Christianity)

So, I began a search for Him and praying for a "Flip this House" experience. What is He really like? What does He really like? How does He feel? What did Adam, Moses, David and others provide for Him, as far as relationship, that others didn't - others who were very moral good people? What did this verse mean from 2 Chronicles 16:9?:

God is always on the alert, constantly on the lookout for people who are
totally committed to him. (The Message)

For the eyes of the LORD move to and fro throughout the earth that He may
strongly support those whose heart is completely His. (New
American Standard)

Was that the key to God's friends? Their hearts are completely His? Must God search to and fro to find them?

These baby steps towards understanding God reminded me of His covering Moses as His Glory passed by. We are such weak humans and can only take small doses of God's reality. He must shield us or take things slowly for us to comprehend them. And just like the parables shared through Jesus - it's stories and life experiences that teach us best. My life experiences were leading me towards a very new understanding - and were an answer to what I had been seeking.

I then became interested in Hosea's story. What an amazing experience! It has totally changed my view of God. Labeled a minor prophet - the message and how it came about is certainly not minor! Many scholars, wiser than me, have written great summaries and applications from this book - so I certainly won't attempt to do that here. My slant is a bit different.

(a piece of Hosea from the Dead Sea Scrolls)

God came to Hosea and said "I want you to get married." God had chosen the girl even - and it was one that pleased Hosea. A purty one! What follows is a heart breaking accounting of Hosea's love and Gomer's fickle adulterous lifestyle. She left the only one who loved her for a myriad of others who looked good fleetingly but only used her. Hosea still loved her - not because of who she was or what she did - but because of who he was - and his love for her. Her lowest lows did nothing to change him - other than him still working to take care of her, wanting to give her love - even in the background.

"It had to be tough on Hosea when people started to gossip about Gomer's promiscuity. But it had to be harder when he introduced someone to his family:"And I'd like you to meet my wife, Gomer. (Gomer, please cover up your cleavage.) And these are my three children: Castaway, Not Loved and Not My People." (from What Ticks God Off)

Why did God orchestrate this odd and miserable life for Hosea? Why did he choose such a fornicatin' woman for a man who was chosen as a mouthpiece for God Himself? Why did he put such negativity on those children for life by saddling them with such horrible, negative names? What sin had those kids committed to be treated this way? I see two important issues here.

First - Hosea had totally submitted his life to God and, while he might be seen by others as a "vessel of dishonor" - he was being used by God and lived every work that God had prepared for him. He was a very important part of God's plan.
Also, God had a message for Hosea to give - and He wanted Hosea to share it with the passion of a man who had LIVED the message - not just been told. God could have told Hosea - "Hey - go tell these people they are whores. They have left me for shoddy replacements who are only going to use and abuse them." But that is not what God chose to do. God had Hosea LIVE a physical experience that coincided with the spiritual message that God wanted him to share.

When we have experiences with God - it is not to share the nuts and bolts of what we've been through. That's intimate between God and ourselves - something tailored made for our depth, understanding and place in our individual walks. We have no record of Hosea saying, "Let me tell you what the Lord and I have been up to. He spoke to me and told me to marry Gomer . . . " No, Hosea lived the life God had set for him and then had the emotions to plead the message with God's emotions - the abandonment God felt . . the jealousy He was living with . . with the love He so wanted to give. Hosea knew the reality and could share it with tears and a broken heart. Can you imagine the message he gave?

So, the various threads of my tapestry, that God began weaving before I even knew I was on a quest for learning about and experiencing submission, are beginning to exhibit a very definite pattern. It's all about submission. I am learning that submission to God is realizing there are works that He has prepared already for me to walk in. Those works are for His good pleasure - not mine. But, they are part of his plan and all I need to know/do/be has been provided through his creation of me. Also, I have learned that God is with me in all the experiences of my life and through them I learn more as I seek and knock. Those experiences are His and mine - not made to be shared. But the person I have become because of what he has provided and taught is a testimony to Him. Our Father needs people who are lights on a hill, the lower lights of the light house - the people who experienced the dark and the crashing waves on the rocks and can then point with confidence to God when others are white knuckling it through a shadow-of-death experience.

Still learning,
AJTX

Submission or Agreement?

2008-06-08T18:51:00.009-05:00

Nearly 2 years have passed since my last post to this blog exploring submission. I wish I had continued on with the exploring and writing because it was moving deeper inside me as I focused on and applied it to myself. I read once that women think as they write - while often men write to express something they have already come to decision on. The generalization about women is so true of me. While I write, I learn and I'm often surprised at the outcome!

Since writing the last post, my submission both to God and my husband, has been sorely tested. Life happens, huh? :) I wondered why does it flow so smoothly at times but feel like a burden at others? I am basically the same person all the time - and so is my husband. Our personalities are actually quite similar and submission to him is not difficult. In my spiritual walk - it's no different. God doesn't change from one day to the next - doesn't make our relationship guess work. What is happening?

As I pondered this, a thought came to me. Many times throughout our marriage I happily submit to my husband because he is making a request or handling something in exactly the way I want him to - or exactly as I would do it. "Wonderful - thanks!" "Thanks for handling that problem for me!" Or, "You're so right in what you decided to do here - I am so proud of you!" This submission stuff is great! Everyone is happy - I'm freed from having to worry about certain things or handling issues. He makes a great decision that benefits us all and life is good. His decision might even be to leave the decision to me. Even better!

Kinda like with God. Here's an example: God wants me to be a good worker - actually working for Him rather than my boss. I love submitting to Him in my job, because by working that way I generally am awarded by a pat on the back, a raise and maybe a promotion. Not only did I get a raise, but I'm obeying God. Cool! This submitting stuff really works!

Ok - one problem here. Both examples above are when I am agreeing with my husband or agreeing with God. It's when they've come to a decision that I agree with or I can say "Amen!" to - or something I can see benefits me. What's not to submit to? Well, I'm not too sure that's submitting at all. I've experienced agreement.

The dictionary says agreement means harmony of people's opinions or actions. Contrarywise - the word submission means surrendering power to another. See the difference? In agreement - we are in harmony - we are moving the same direction . . we see things in the same way. When it comes to my "submission/agreement" to God - it is when His will fits in with my personality and when I see the wisdom in his ways - the end result benefits my life - whether physical or spiritual. That's what following God is for - right? It assures me life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

No.

Submitting to God means that I surrender my power to Him. His will is what rules in my life - not my own will that chooses agreement or not. I may not agree. In fact, if God gets involved in my life I would imagine it will be something I won't agree with. Why would God teach me or reveal to me something of which he and I already agree? What part of revelation is that?

Submitting means that I may be diametrically opposed to what I'm hearing or maybe I don't see that it's going to end in my understanding of the right way - but I do it anyway. And I don't do it grudgingly or with a heart that's filled with distrust or holding on to the power - but I do it cheerfully. My will - my power - has been given over.

There aren't many examples of this in the Bible. But one sticks out to me that illustrates this turning of will over perfectly.

Part of the story from Daniel 3:

Nebuchadnezzar asked them, "Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, is it true that you don't honor my gods or worship the gold statue that I set up? When you hear the sound of the rams' horns, flutes, lyres, harps, and three-stringed harps playing at the same time with all other kinds of instruments, will you bow down and worship the gold statue I made? If you don't worship it, you will immediately be thrown into a blazing furnace. What god can save you from my power then?"

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego answered King Nebuchadnezzar, "We don't need to answer your last question. If our God, whom we honor, can save us from a blazing furnace and from your power, he will, Your Majesty. But if he doesn't, you should know, Your Majesty, we'll never honor your gods or worship the gold statue that you set up."

There is submission - but even if he doesn't . . .
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego knew that God could save them - but
they submitted to His decision of whether he would or not - and would submit to him to the end - even if the end meant a very painful death . . . a death that came about because they were doing the will of God.

So - my challenge to myself is to focus on submission - not to applaud myself for moments of agreement. Big challenge. It certainly goes against my natural self.

AJTX

Taking His Name in Vain

2006-11-11T14:11:00.001-06:00

A few further thoughts . . .

I really believe we women have a blessing of being able to learn submission to God by having our marriages as models. How do men learn the same submission? Yes, I agree we are all to submit to one another, but in the opportunities we women have to learn that in our daily lives, our honest looks at ourselves serve as a constant thermometer of our relationship with God. That's a blessing.

When we look at how we view our relationship with God - its roots are buried deeply within how we view all our relationships. For instance - girls are taught from early on (in many families) to find a husband who will be able to provide for all their needs (or should we say wants.) Some mothers really push this and mold their daughters, placing them in situations where that is the type of relationship they are to search for - above all others. Now, I am not saying we should not desire lives of financial security for ourselves and our children. Of course we are human and our human desires are important -but is that the main or sole yardstick we use to find a suitable mate?

In actuality - in that type of marriage - the girl is the center of her own desires. She never intended to live the words of her vows - "Love, honor . . . (even if you want to leave out obey) she never desired to honor her husband - she was finding a man who would honor and please her. Her needs are the needs being met in her search. When she took her husband's name - she never meant the words she said - she took his name in vain.

When that has been drilled into a girl's mind, and when even parental roles are seen in that way these days, how can it not filter into her understanding of her relationship with God? He is just another, more powerful personality who is here to give us what we need/want. Save him for the really big stuff your husband can't provide or fix. He comes to the rescue in sickness, in times of financial problems or in matters of the heart.

One of my favorite writers, Clarence Jordan, explains it like this, "The principal problem of modern Christians is that they want God to conform to their agenda - to bless their endeavors and goals. That is backwards. God has an agenda and wants God's people to learn what it is and to become active participants in that agenda. People and churches build "God boxes." Then they invite a certain kind of God into their boxes. That God, for instance might be a God for white people, affluent people, or highly educated people. But God doesn't show up in the human made boxes. That God, the authentic Lord of All, is shut out."

Without a revelation from God about who HE is and who we are - I am not sure how a person can step away from the 'me' life and put God as the center. How does one undo a lifetime of watching out for himself? However, anything less is unacceptable. God gave us talents to use for Him - not to make us more money, give us fame or provide us a reason to feel good about ourselves. I have seen teachers, for instance, bristle against having difficult children put in their classes. Others have flatly refused them. If God has given you a talent to teach - what is it for? Something for you to gain $$ and a warm fuzzy about - or it is to be used for those kids who need you the MOST - the difficult kids? It's hard to find folks who view their jobs and talents that way.

So - my prayer for myself - and anyone else interested in this type of life would be that God would reveal His greatness to me and my role in His Plan - not His role in mine. It's a 100% life change - and one that's a bit scary. :/

AJTX

"I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy"

2006-10-22T09:36:00.000-05:00

G'morning,

It's a beautiful Sunday morning in October. My window in the study is open and I can feel a very cool 45 deg. breeze coming through. Coffee is brewing. Daughter is asleep. It's a nice relaxing way to start the day.

Over the course of talking to several people about the verses I posted the other day, I have found a lot of emotion attached to the discussion. I have usually felt like the lone one on the side that God meant what he said here - that He chooses whom to have mercy on - whom to love - simply because he chose them - not because of any deed they did. The fact that people have reacted to my ideas so negatively makes me wonder if their view of who God is needs some stretching. I thought it might be good to find some folks in the I-net who hold different views of what this means. Here are the verses:
Romans 9:11-21

11for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, . . .
15For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." . . .
16So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. . .
17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH."
18So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. . .
20On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?
21Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?

Like John Piper, I believe that one's view of these verses shapes his entire belief system on the sovereignty of God. He writes about his view when he was younger : "The sovereignty of God meant that he can do anything with me that I give him permission to do." I think that pretty well sums up what many folks believe: God is looking for people who will submit to Him - and when someone agrees to follow Him - he begins working in their lives. However, that doesn't jive with what He says here. God brings about the willing and the doing in the lives of his children. Where does that leave room for my effort?

I am not going to try a deep discussion of these verses. It would take much research and a smarter brain than mine. :) There are many applications to be made - most of which hinge on other chapters in Romans. For the purposes of this blog, I am simply looking at our needing to realize that God is absolutely sovereign - we are not here for our own fulfillment.

My question is - if someone is Esau - someone God chose to hate before they were even born - can that person accept that - accept God's absolute power over the universe and realize he has a role to play in it?

I believe much of the problem people have with these concepts are due partly to a jump in conclusions. For instance, Judas carried out his plan against Jesus after "Satan entered his heart" - doesn't sound to me like Judas had much of a choice - just as Pharoah didn't with the Israelites.

One poster writes:
I have a bit of a problem with this - look at Romans 9 verses 15 to 21. In other words, God hardens people's hearts, but still blames them for doing wrong. When they question the fairness of this, the only defense given is "Who are you, O man, to talk back to God"?

another:
We are created beings. There is no getting around that. As created beings, God created us all for a purpose. Some were created for destruction, others were created for mercy. It is in God’s hands that our fate is decided. Not ours.

another:
The third teaching I have in mind is that God is sovereign; His plan provides for everything, and His purposes cannot be defeated by our sin. You may say, "That's my point." Yes, but you assume that God's sovereignty cannot be reconciled with His love or with man's responsibility. Have you tried reconciling them? I am not saying that the problem is easy, but in fact, theologians over the centuries have suggested a number of different ways in which they might be reconciled. For example, where Paul speaks of God "hardening" a certain person's heart, he may mean that God plans for that person to do what he knows the person would have done in any case. Or he may be using figurative language to say that God leaves some people to their own self-chosen exile. Other solutions have also been proposed. Which solution is best is not the point; the crucial thing is that God's plan somehow provides ahead of time for our response to His grace. If this is difficult to understand, remember, planning means something radically different for God than it does for us. Our planning looks toward a future not yet present, but for Him all moments of time are present at once.

rather long but more scholarly:

“I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.” This is a common expression in the Bible called by some scholars the idem per idem(SP?). Another example is Exodus 3:14: “I AM WHO I AM.” This particular expression does only one thing: preserve the freedom and sovereign rights of the one doing the action in doing the action. The person who “is” is free from any outside determining factors.

So notice what God says about the exercise of his mercy and grace. First, God says, “I will be gracious…and will show mercy.” God will do it and it won’t be thwarted. God will show mercy and grace. Secondly, God says, “…to whom I will be gracious…on whom I will show mercy.” God will decide to give mercy to whoever he chooses. It is up to him. He is not bound by any outside forces that say, “You must show me mercy because I have done…” God does not work that way. God says, “I will have mercy on you because I have so determined to do so.” The same thing with grace. God gives grace to who he does because he has chosen to do so.

So then, for God to give mercy because they have done anything would be out of character, no contrary to his character. God would not be God if he did not sovereignly give mercy and give mercy to those he has determined to receive it. This exercise of mercy is the expression of God’s glorifying his name. But this also incorporates his punitive justice as well. For that is the character of God. God must give his justice and wrath to those whom he wills because that is his name, his glory.

Tying this back to Romans 9. God would indeed be unjust in Paul’s mind to not give mercy on the basis of God’s free will, not man’s. Hence Romans 9:16, “So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.” It depends not upon human thelo or wishing, desiring. It depends upon God who has mercy. It depends not upon human trecho, effort or running, but upon God, who has mercy. It is interesting that the term trecho that Paul uses here is used in the LXX reading of Ps. 119:32, “I will run in the way of your commandments when you enlarge my heart!” Paul would have known of this verse and had it in mind when chosing this term for exertion. Paul in this chapter has gone completely counter to his Pharisaical upbrining in favor of a more Essene theology. So it isn’t how religious you are either! What matters is God having mercy, unconditionally, apart from any human effort or thinking/believing/wishing/desiring!

Thus I conclude with Paul in Romans 9:14-16 that God would be unjust if God did not give mercy unconditionally to those whom he has chosen to give mercy. God would dishonor his name by acting out of character. God’s glory would be diminished and that is something God cannot do nor will Paul have us think God would do that. God must act according to his name, other wise he is not Yahweh, the only true God.

----
Well, I still find folks who are using these verses to explain how much God gives mercy - not dependent upon whether we deserve it or have 'earned' it - which of course we can't. But not much discussion on the other side of the coin - which is just as real. I will choose NOT to have mercy according to my will. Is that just too far outside our warm, cuddly, secure world? Can we step aside for living a ME centered life and put God there - where he belongs?

AJTX

. . . as unto the Lord

2006-10-18T17:28:00.000-05:00

Hi again,

Continuing in my wonderings - I realize I have to first decide just whose will is being done in this matter called my life. Am I here for God's good pleasure or is He here for mine? Until I get that ironed out and internalized (which is a lifelong growth process) I can't even begin to start a desire for submission. There is no way to submit, or even understand submitting, until I place my life in proper alignment with the submitt-ee. This is true with my life in God - and the life with my husband.

Romans 9 has some hard words for those of us in 21st century America:

11for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,
12it was said to her, "THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER."
13Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED."
14What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be!
15For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."
16So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH."
18So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
19You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?"
20On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?
21Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?
- -
Our American view of God and religion is a system put in place to make our lives better, more prosperous in relationships, in happiness, in money, in health - in our pursuit for the good life. We believe that those who prosper are blessed by God and those who suffer just don't seem to measure up. However, even a quick reading of the verses above make hash of that viewpoint.

God molds us into the vessel of his choice. Some He makes fancy. Others he makes plain. There is no rhyme nor reason outside of his desires. Dare we say - some of us he loves and some he hates? How about He might raise me up to my physical detriment (as he said he did Pharoah) only to show his power through me or to further his plan. Can I accept that? Can I love God will all my heart and mind, trust him totally and long to be even closer, if my physical life is a broken clay pot? That is a hard thought. But if I can't place God in absolute monarchial control of my life, giving him total right over me - as the one who created me for his good pleasure - then I am creating a god of my own doing - and that god is me. Because I am calling the shots and I am deciding what can and can't be done with my life. I can't serve two masters. I either serve myself - or I serve God.

I believe if I can reach this understanding it places me at the bottom step of 'the blesseds' - truly able to say "God - I am absolutely poor in spirit." At that point - He can move in and start working in my life. But until I totally submit all I am - and all that I will be - then I have not even begun that walk up the steps of 'the blesseds '- into mercy and peacemaking, etc.

Jesus - our supreme example did nothing except the will of his Father. We can quote verses like that. We've heard great sermons that made really good applications of that idea. But if - as our example - Jesus is one to be followed - can we say for even one DAY of our lives we did nothing except the will of our Father?

In Matthew 11 Jesus told his Dad:

25"I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.

Jesus praised God doing what was His good pleasure. His entire will was given over to Him. Are we brave enough to even whisper that idea to God? Do we trust Him enough? We have to take the hands off the wheel . . .

AJTX

Going Back to the Beginning

2006-10-16T17:17:00.000-05:00

Hi, myself

I thought it best to start at the beginning. Until I can figure out who God is in my life, I can't begin to understand how I can submit to him.

A popular view of God is a cuddly, grandfatherly Santa Claus - lovingly overlooking all our activities, gently carrying us through the hard times of life, giving us the deepest desires of our hearts, teaching us deep lessons along the way readying us for a home in the sweet by and by.

Another view of God is a stern task master - standing above, with that "all seeing eye watching you" - a red pen, the book of life and a certain glee at catching us mess up. ("I knew you couldn't do it!") He hid commands and parts of commands in various parts of the Bible - making it a life long job of searching and putting them together in order to please Him. God is up in Heaven spending His time watching us, and recording our activities. We are the center of his attention. It's all about our ability to live the life he outlined in the Bible.

Problem with those views? In it - I am God. All things are to benefit me. God helps, God protects, God grants, God forgives, God teaches. It's all about me. Sounds like the Toby Keith song. If you think honestly about our usual view of God - doesn't that fit? That's a frightening thought! I wonder how He feels about that? (I am certainly not taking away from the fact that God desires to do all those things and more - but questioning if that should be the center of our relationship.)

Transfering to the relationship with my husband - is there a similarity? Is our relationship one I view ultimately in terms of how it will benefit me? Is my husband here simply to make my life better, prevent or solve my problems, protect me, provide, entertain, etc. If that is how I view this relationship, submission makes no sense. I am the center of the relationship - how can I even begin to submit?

How should I view God? Why did he create me to begin with? I believe we can look to the creation of the first recorded human to answer that question. When God created Adam, they immediately struck up a relationship. They were friends walking in the Garden each evening. We don't have records of what they talked about (Oh, how I wish we did!) but I think it is fair to say they were not filled with requests and pleas of help from Adam. What more could he ask for? He lived in a paradise. I believe God looked to Adam as a friend - a companion. I believe He is still looking for friends. People who are His (as he says in 1 Chron. "My people, who are called by My name) - people who are in relationship with him. People who LIKE Him. There were a few folks like that recorded in the OT - folks like Abraham - Moses - and David. Those men had relationships with God. How did they have that desire before they read scripture where we find the beginning of faith and understanding today? They sought Him out. It was not a case of God speaking to them and bringing about that relationship. God spoke to many people but only seemed to view a few in this close manner. Also, we have no record that God spoke to David (amazing, but true) so David's faith and desire for God was not based on that. Moses was so close to God he said "Whoa, now, God. Are you sure you want to do that? You aren't going to look too good with the people if you over react like that! That is pretty amazing when you think about it.

So, how can I understand submitting to someone if I am really keeping Him in subjection? That's a hard thought. It's a huge thought. It's something that takes days and months of prayer and contemplation to sift through our own lives and ask God to show us the areas that we are willfully holding God back and keeping Him in a box, only allowing Him access and power of our own limits.

God is not here for me. He did not create me for my own good pleasure. I am here solely for His. My life is not my own. I was bought with a price. I am to glorify God in my body. That is pretty heavy stuff and really goes against our American ideals of my rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. What rights do I have? I am certainly assured no rights from day to day in today's volatile world. I never had rights in my life with God. He made me and he bought me. It is all about HIM. However, turning my life over to Him brings me everything: an abundance of life of which I cannot begin to conceive.

I believe that I can begin to see a glimpse of submitting to God by putting my husband in the proper place in my life, as well. I am to submit to him as to the Lord. I simply cannot do that if I have him in a subjected state in my life - one in which it is his job to serve my needs. Another opportunity for heart searching prayer with God and conversation with my husband. I need to seek to know him - his needs and desires - just as I need to seek God and learn His desires for me.

So, before beginning a life of submission, I have to understand where I stand in relation to the folks I am trying to submit to. If I don't place them in proper alignment in my life I will never understand submission and it WILL be a difficult yoke - one that chafs and binds and weighs me down.

Why am I here?
AJTX

Learning about Submission

2006-10-16T12:54:00.000-05:00

Hello me,

I thought I might chronicle my search for the meaning of life. Well, maybe not quite that heavy - but a search for God's meaning for me - a woman in 2006. That's not an easy place to be! On the one hand - I was single for many years, raising a family, pursuing a career, and balancing that with working on a Master's degree. It lead to a necessity of being independent and self-reliant. Those aren't bad things at all. But I found a quote that summed up the direction I was headed "I am becoming the man I always wanted to marry." That described me a "T." I was all those things I had been looking for - success oriented, hard working, forward thinking, reliable and provided security for those around me.

Then, in 2004, I got married. Well, that caused an about face in my lifestyle (in more ways than one! ) We dated (long distance) for 5 years, and talked a lot about what marriage meant to each of us. We talked about dreams (unfulfilled) we had always had about what godly marriage was - and then looked at several biblical examples of marriage as a base.

We both see the Bible as a historical tracing of God's working in the lives of his people throughout time. Everything written is certainly for our benefit (to learn more about Him and what He desires from His people) but not as a blueprint for us to follow today. We learn much about God from the OT - but those recorded experiences He had with folks are not ours. Each of us has our own experience with him - just as a parent does with each of his children.

For instance - almost unheard of today - why did Sarah call Abraham "lord?" Would that be marriage material today? It is certainly not a command, but why did she do that? What kind of marriage did they have that brought her to that place? Since it is mentioned - was it a rather odd thing that she called him that compared to other women of her day? What kind of man was Abraham that brought her to a place to recognize him as such?

What does it mean that I am to submit to my husband as unto the Lord? I've recently had some thoughts on that - certainly not ones that are popular in today's mainstream culture - however it doesn't take much of a look at today's culture to see that it is in turmoil and destroying itself. I don't believe I would waste too much time worrying about whether my understandings and views fit in.

What does it mean that my husband is to love me as Christ loves the church? Is my submission something that I am totally responsible for - a command of "Do this or die!" or is this a partnership with both sides having responsibility in the maturing product of godly submission. Are both actually to submit to one another?

What does it mean that my body belongs to him? And his to me?

These and other questions are what I will be working through. I just thought I'd put it here in case someone else has thoughts along the same line or would like to stretch my thinking further. I love that. :)

AJTX